199 replies to this topic

[Mike]

David Cameron's visit to the RVI was absent from the media.

Andrew Lansley had a go today, with a visit to the Royal Free in Hampstead. The press were pretty much not allowed, and Lansley took a police guard with him.

[steveuk]

That's a lot of coppers.

[Mike]

Dangerous places hospitals. Full of undesirables.

Seriously, when the Health Secretary can't go into an NHS hospital without a police guard, surely he has to realise there's something fundamentally wrong with things?

And watch and see if this is on the BBC News at Ten tonight.

[steveuk]

Dangerous places hospitals. Full of undesirables.

Seriously, when the Health Secretary can't go into an NHS hospital without a police guard, surely he has to realise there's something fundamentally wrong with things?

And watch and see if this is on the BBC News at Ten tonight.

You might think that, I couldn't possibly comment.

[Mike]

This was news - Blair slow clapped at WRVS conference

This isn't - Lansley afraid to walk the corridors of an NHS hospital without a guard

(And it gets worse - all of the medical staff not carrying an emergency page were apparently summoned for 'mandatory training' in the hospital lecture theatre and not told Lansley was visiting)

I am fiercely proud of the NHS. It saddens me that I am rapidly losing faith in the BBC, an organisation from Paxman to Dimbleby to the news editors who seem afraid to confront the Government over its failings, for fear they might be next.

[steveuk]

The BBC have been running scared for a few years. It's a real shame.

[David Meadows]

The Hutton whitewashreport was a huge blow to the BBC, one that it apparently hasn't recovered from yet.

[Martin Smith]

Someone should have reminded the coppers that they're next after the NHS.

[Sanjay]

David Cameron's visit to the RVI was absent from the media.

Andrew Lansley had a go today, with a visit to the Royal Free in Hampstead. The press were pretty much not allowed, and Lansley took a police guard with him.

Hurrah!

I'm very familar with Royal Free Hospital as my mum has been going there as a dialysis patient for over 30 years now (with many long stays there). I'd hate to see the quality of service we received from there, and many other fine hospitals, irrevocably changed for the worse because of these cutthroat clowns.

Though, with their conduct recently, especially over the last year - the public aren't going to trust the word of Politicians over Doctors (and speaking of softpeddling journalists upthread - the only way I'd see Murdoch's papers being popular again is if they backed the Doctors on this).

[Mike]

The Lib Dems have turned into a parody of a political party. I hope some of their MPs and Lords have enough spine and self-respect to acknowledge the fact that their own conference does not support the Health Bill, and vote accordingly.

Clegg's turned into an apologist Tory lapdog, so desperate for cast-off's from the hand of power that he'll ignore any vestige of integrity he might once have had.

Clegg has been a disappointment on a grand scale. I will be more saddened if the likes of Charlie Kennedy and Paddy Ashdown don't have the strength to acknowledge that they do not have the backing of their membership and make a stand before it is too late.

And Floella Benjamin. Dear God, seeing Floella Benjamin vote to dismember social welfare in this country was bad enough. If her vote is one of the ones that gets the Health Bill through the Lords, I'm not sure I'll be able to cope without having a wee retroactive psychotic episode.

Speaking of which ... am I reading the Catholic Archbishops' letter on marriage wrong or is it actually saying that the only people 'marriage' is good for are religious Catholics?

[steveuk]

Nick Clegg has said the NHS bill was "stopped in its tracks" because of the Liberal Democrats - but party peers have been told to withhold support for it in the House of Lords.

Activists voted 314 to 270 to remove a crucial line in a pro-change motion calling for peers to back the final stages of the Health and Social Care Bill .

However, it does not mean Lib Dems in the House of Lords will vote against the bill and it does not bind MPs to vote against it in the Commons.

Regardless, it is an embarrassing blow to leader Nick Clegg at the party's spring conference in Gateshead.

Sky News political correspondent Glen Oglaza, reporting from the conference, said it showed "disconnect between Lib Dem activists and parliamentarians".

<SNIP>

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/clegg-calls-budget-fairness-030501061.html

[David Meadows]

Speaking of which ... am I reading the Catholic Archbishops' letter on marriage wrong or is it actually saying that the only people 'marriage' is good for are religious Catholics?

I would hope that a Catholic Archbishop did hold that view. Otherwise, he's not doing his job properly.

[David Chapman]

Clegg has been a disappointment on a grand scale. I will be more saddened if the likes of Charlie Kennedy and Paddy Ashdown don't have the strength to acknowledge that they do not have the backing of their membership and make a stand before it is too late.

No kidding. I expected that the Coalition would break down once Clegg said "Stuff the Tories", but it's more likely to go because the Lib Dems say "Stuff Clegg". It can't happen soon enough now.

[Mike]

I would hope that a Catholic Archbishop did hold that view. Otherwise, he's not doing his job properly.

Is that official Catholic policy? To only recognise 'marriage' as a concept applicable to people of their own faith? I've never heard of the Catholic hierarchy not recognising Jewish, or Muslim, or even atheist marriages before?

I'm quite happy if that is their position, as it makes their stance against equal marriage in general quite plain.

My view of religious folk in general is coloured by the fact that the Christian church in the town where I was a teenager was a very liberal one with one building and three ministers from different branches of Christianity, who all got on very well with each other (they were all called Iain, which was slightly odd). The idea of the Roman Catholic one telling the Church of Scotland one that he didn't recognise his marriage as valid is bizarre.

[steveuk]

No kidding. I expected that the Coalition would break down once Clegg said "Stuff the Tories", but it's more likely to go because the Lib Dems say "Stuff Clegg". It can't happen soon enough now.

I'm sorry to say that it'll happen AFTER the next election.

[David Meadows]

Is that official Catholic policy? To only recognise 'marriage' as a concept applicable to people of their own faith? I've never heard of the Catholic hierarchy not recognising Jewish, or Muslim, or even atheist marriages before?

"The care of all those sacred rites [i.e. sacraments] has been given to the Church of Christ." (Father Billot, S.J.)

I couldn't tell you what is policy, because modern Catholic policy seems to be all over the place and I haven't kept up with it. I was raised Anglican, not Roman Catholic. But it is doctrine, which I would think should be more important. The Council of Trent defined Matrimony as a sacrament, and as such it given to us by God to allow us to better come to God -- which clearly we can only do if we are proper ("proper" meaning Catholic) Christians.

"Matrimony gives the graces necessary for those who are to rear children in the love and fear of God, members of the Church militant, future citizens of heaven." (St. Thomas.) (Incidentally this does not exclude same sex marriages, as it is for rearing children, not bearing children )


"In adults, for the valid reception of any sacrament ... it is necessary that they have the intention of receiving it. The sacraments impose obligations and confer grace." This quote (from the Catholic Encyclopedia) is basically saying that you must be willing to accept grace if you want to receive the sacrament, which fits doctrine because nobody believes that Christ forces himself on people -- they have to accept him willingly. Also: "it is a general law that application for the sacraments should be made to worthy and duly appointed ministers", only Catholics being worthy and duly appointed, of course.

I'm sure that if a Jew or a Muslim accepted Christ's grace and applied to an ordained Catholic minister then he could be married...

[Christian U]

None of you unbaptised heathens are getting into heaven, either, just so's you know. And that goes double for you protestant heretics!

[David Meadows]

None of you unbaptised heathens are getting into heaven, either, just so's you know. And that goes double for you protestant heretics!

You are clearly deluded, it is obviously Catholics who are heretics not Protestants.

[steveuk]

[jamon g]

the rule is that you're not married unless you are married in a catholic church by a catholic priest. also you can't get divorced unless the pope disolves the marriage (never does) and so can never get remarried in a catholic church. If you do remarry then you can go to church but aren't allowed communion, as you can't be absolved at confession for living with your partner who is not your wife/husband because you don't intend to stop the sin.
i found it all very interesting going through the rigmoral of marrying a catholic girl in a catholic church, me being a heathen.