98 replies to this topic

[Paul Penna]

There are a lot of discussions on this message board, but for me the board is still primarily about breaking into the comic book industry.

So, I thought it'd be a good idea to start up a thread looking at what everyone (writers and artists) is doing to break into comic books. Whether you're still at that stage where you wishfully think 'one day I want to write comics', you're studying a course at university, you're putting everything you have into breaking in or if you've had some kind of success.

It might be a good way for others to pick up tips or for people to find collaborators who are of a similar mindset to them.

For me, I'm doing everything I can to become a comic book writer.

I'm twenty-six, almost twenty-seven and it has occured to me that I can no longer afford to think 'one day' because otherwise it will never happen for me. If I'm going to successfully break into comics then I need to be doing things now which are going to get me noticed.

I studied screenwriting for three years as an undergraduate and a year as a postgraduate, and my writing skills have hopefully reached a professional level.

During 2011 I submitted three Space Oddities (although they haven't been looked at yet and at this stage, I doubt they will be), you can see them in the Space Oddities thread. I completed two other black and white strips which have yet to find a proper home and I started working on a fourth Space Oddities strip with Elliot Balson which is still at the pencilling stages.

I work a full time job but it's minimum wage, so I can barely afford to pay the bills which unfortunately means that I can't afford to pay artists but I was lucky enough to find talented people who liked my writing and were willing to take a chance on me.

I've worked on plenty of other projects as well but unfortunately artists have dissapeared or been unable to continue.

While it'd be nice to get paid for my writing, I know at this stage that it's much more important to get noticed which is why I've also been submitting to small press magazines like FutureQuake; http://www.futurequa...o.uk/index.html

I know there are writers and artists out there who need to get paid for their work in order to support themselves but I gotta beleive that getting your name out there, even if there are no instant monetary rewards, has gotta be worth it.

Somewhat amazingly the people at FutureQuake liked one of my scripts and I found a great artist to work on it, so 'Projections' will see publication in March; http://futurequakepr...rojections.html

If there are any writers or artists out there hoping to break into the comic book industry then I recommend submitting to FutureQuake, you wont get paid anything but it's a chance to get published.

I also submitted two scripts to an indie publisher called What the Flux?! Comics (http://whatthefluxcomics.com/) - they were called 'Conqueror' and 'Secret Identity'. They decided that 'Conqueror' was the one they wanted to go with (although I'm still rewriting 'Secret Identity' and I hope to find an artist who wants to work on it).

The artist for 'Conqueror' I found on the 2000AD message boards and he's doing great work. The first ten page instalment of 'Conqueror' was completed back in December.

The original plan was for the strip to appear in the Flux UK anthology but it would appear that has been discontinued, so I was asked if I would like 'Conqueror' to appear in it's own title. Which means completing twice the material before it can be published (as it needs to be 20+ pages) but is an amazing opportunity.

I started a facebook page where I could leave updates for 'Conqueror' and hopefully start building a fan base, it can be found here - http://www.facebook.com/conquerorcomic

I'm still struggling trying to break in and who knows whether I'll succeed or not, but I'm doing everthing I can. All my money either goes on conventions such as Kapow or on research material.

I hope that I can find more artist collaborators who will want to work with me, it'd be great to be working on some new projects and trying to get them published as well.

So, what is everyone else doing to break in? What stages are you at? And does anyone have any advice on what else I could be doing to break into writing comic books?

[James L. Sarandis]

We actually had a thread similar to this in the "I'm a Keyboard Jockey Thread, but I can appreciate the effort.

I'm in much the same boat as you, same age, same job. The only real difference is I have yet to be published anywhere. It's rough for guys like us but if you can do it you'll be golden.

[laine lolauc]

Time to start a fundraiser on a crowdsourcer like wonderfunders, indiegogo or kickstarter! Unpaid artists are known to dry up and float away after about 5 pages. But in about the same amount of time your artist could do a promo pinup, some concept sketches and a couple sequential sample pages, that and a good video pitch is all you need to get a fundraiser started. If you have a small social network start with a small goal, raise $500-$1000 to pay your penciler to finish the book for a modest page rate.

[stuperrins]

i'm just finsihing up the forth script of my superhero epic 'mercury' has we speak/type.the artist Mr Matt White is doing/has done some fantastic art work so far and i'm really excited to see ehat he does with this final issue. the first issue got a very good review on comicbuzz (7 out of 10- can't bad can it?) which was very encouaging and i even got a 'nice review' message from mr millar himself.

i've also recently written a one pager 'Monty Python' for kids story called 'First Class Stan: the unlucky postman', which has some awesome artwork by Chris Hunter, which i've submitted to 'The Phoenix' Chris is also currently working on the art for a 3 pager called 'Otherworld' which i'll shall be submitting once i get the final finished art.

as well as all that, i guess i'm doing everything everyone else is. but my plan is to really hit it hard this year.

[niall doonan]

I just try and write and come up with new ideas as often as I can.

I've been writing scripts for about four years, mainly for fun, but have been persuing possibilities more readily in the past year.

I have a web comic and write reviews for comicbuzz.com. It's always good to be reading a lot of comics, I think that if you want to be a good writer, you have to read a lot (preferably lots of genres in lots of mediums).

Also, talk to as many artists as possible.

I'm hoping to submit some projects to Image this year also.

[Gibsonian]

Well, I'm currently finishing up colouring the issues of Lloyd and the Bear that I've done and posting them on my website.

Last year I did a couple of conventions (Kapow and Thoughtbubble) and going to expand upon that this year (London Super Comic Convention, London Film and Comic Con, Thoughtbubble and possibly an indie con in April) and I've put my work forward to Top Shelf although they haven't gotten back to me. Humph.

I'm still plugging away and trying to find someone who wants to publish my work - although that actually means finding a publisher - but I'm stuck in a situation where to do the time to do that I would have to stop creating and I've a lot of things I want to get put together for both the future conventions and my website.

It's a tough balancing act doing that on top or a job ain't it?

[Stephen Galvin]

I don't understand why, in the age of digital publishing, guys are waiting for someone else to publish them. Dean wesley smith has a great website that comes at this from the prose angle, but the same advice he gives applies to comics. Writers, well, my advice is write the book first, publish it digitally, and then try and get it converted into comics. If you make 1000 off the book, and if it is any good, you will, this gives you enough to get a pilot issue of the comic done.
Virtually all of the companies that are making the comics you admire started as self publishing enterprises.
There are Print on demand services, pure digital services, a mixture of both.
Scott Amundsen has got the Barbarian out in comixology. He got a lot of grief when he put it up on this board, mainly self inflicted, but my point is that he has it out there. Now it has to stand on it's own merits, but that is entirely another question.
M Millar has just announced an under 5 comic. This board had that discussion going on about a team effort to produce something in a similar area for nearly a year.The fact that millar took it up proves it is a good idea. Nothing appears to be happening with the board effort. I don't understand it.
Why don't you all put up an anthology? 6 pages each of what you think is your best work, and digitally publish it? I don't understand how so many talented individuals are not getting the work out there.Is it about money? It costs nothing, repeat, nothing, to digitally publish through drive thru, and I am pretty sure Comixology is the same.
You want to break into comics? Then do it. Like Dave Sims did. Do the digital version of an ashcan, or a tijuana bible.
Sorry if this seems a bit lecturey (Coin a phrase), but is drives me mad to see people waiting to be discovered when they could be just getting on with it.
Creator owned is the way of the future. Even if it is by licensing your property to the big guys.
I think sometimes guys measure themselves against what is being created by the big commercial concerns, and they get performance anxiety, but observation of the tastes of the general public would suggest that they generally can't tell the difference between polished art, and something of a more home-made nature, and a lot of the time, they don't seem to care either, as long as the story does what it is supposed to.
I tried to get an adult GN published by Virgin, and they told me to write a book instead, so I did, and they published it, but their concerns were more to do with the obscenity laws at the time than anything else. If there had been digital publishing at the time for comics, I would have put the book out myself.
So, that's my tuppenceworth. There are no obstacles to breaking into comics. The problem is to get paid well for it. That is another story altogether.

[niall doonan]

@Stephen

I'm not sure self-publishing digitally counts as breaking in. I have a web comic, which is free and online for anyone to look at, but I don't consider myself in the comic industry because anyone could do what I've done. (Though the quality may differ either way)

[Stephen Galvin]

@Stephen

I'm not sure self-publishing digitally counts as breaking in. I have a web comic, which is free and online for anyone to look at, but I don't consider myself in the comic industry because anyone could do what I've done. (Though the quality may differ either way)

Hi Niall, I don't consider a web comic as breaking in either (Thought there is an argument for a successful webcomic such as Starfighter being a break in). I am talking about putting out a 22 page sequential in the A4 format, which people can buy on drive-thru in exactly the same way as they but a comic such as 2000AD (available on the same site.) If you do that, and sell 200 copies, you will make more than if you sold 2000 in the traditional way. So which is important? Making money, or selling comics, because either way, for a creator trying to break in, digital is a no brainer. No contract, other than the distribution. No arguments over ownership or copyright. Never goes out of print. Costs you nothing to distribute your work, actually makes you money from the first one you sell. I could keep hammering the point home, but if people are only going to be satisfied when they walk in the door of the marvel office to get their first real ass kicking by a bunch of sharks, well good luck to them.
You have broken in when you have sold lots of comics. You have broken in when your own creations support you financially. You have broken in when people contact you to say how much they loved what you have done, and when are you going to do another so they can buy that too. These would be my milestones. I guess everyone has a different definition of when a person can say they have 'broken in.'

[stuperrins]

its not a bad idea to be honest mr g, and certainly one we should all maybe consider

[Stephen Galvin]

its not a bad idea to be honest mr g, and certainly one we should all maybe consider

It's one way to do it, is all I am saying. When I was very young, I used to draw spiderman and the surfer all the time to amuse myself because I loved the characters so much. I was pretty good at it too, because I had the comic books for reference. When I tried to do anything else, I realised you had to get out there and draw it in the raw, as it were, to build up a library of reference in your head. The only way to know for sure is to try it. One of the hardest things in my case is trying to get 30 pages of good stuff for the first issue, and a further thirty for the next before I offer the first up. I notice the guys who put in space oddities had around 5 to 6 pages. Why don't 5 of them get together on the non-accepted stories and put out a 30 page anthology called something like 'Oddities'? Split any proceeds 5 ways (They are surely going to sell one each, even if it's only to mum). On to the next one. Simple. 5 pages a month is easy. If you disagree, don't go into comics professionally. They want 22 as a minimum.
On another note, and all you writers who bemoan the cost of artists should REALLY pay attention here. DAZ are giving away full working programs with commercial rights of Daz4 and Bryse 7. There is a mode in DAZ 3d software that mimics line art to a very high standard. There are lots of free models in it as part of the overall package, plus with a bit of practise, you can create and tweak the basics to create your own characters. I say no more. Him who hath ears, let him hear.

[stuperrins]

that oddities idea is a great idea, theres enough talented people on here to make something like that work.

[Stephen Galvin]

that oddities idea is a great idea, theres enough talented people on here to make something like that work.

There is, but as soon as it gathers momentum, people start making it more complicated than it really is. 5 People. 5 5 to 6 page stories 1 comic. Up on drive thru. 5 guys promoting. 5 guys who can say they have been printed in an anthology. Add print on demand and you have real comic books in people hands. You have samples for conventions and a website where the thing can be bought. I hear a lot of people idolising what the image guys did, probably rightly, but this is the next step. A really clever person would get a bit of advertising revenue too by putting an ad or two in the book..
Just sayin....

[stuperrins]

come on guys, what you think???

[James L. Sarandis]

I'm not sure, it's great in theory, but I'm not sure if it's for me right now.

[Gibsonian]

@Stephen

I'm not sure self-publishing digitally counts as breaking in. I have a web comic, which is free and online for anyone to look at, but I don't consider myself in the comic industry because anyone could do what I've done. (Though the quality may differ either way)

For sure. Again, I have a webcomic but it's easy enough to buy yourself a website and host a book. It's trying to get publicity that's the killer I'm finding. I'm dropping flyers in comic sores in London but it's trying to get a big presence.

As for the Odditie idea I think it's a great call but someone still has to organise and fund the concept and that isn't easy. What happened to the all ages comic book? That topic lasted well over ten pages but has now seemed to die a death. One example of a good idea that didn't go anywhere (and if I'm wrong with that statement I apologise - and what's going on with it, uh?)

[Stephen Galvin]

For sure. Again, I have a webcomic but it's easy enough to buy yourself a website and host a book. It's trying to get publicity that's the killer I'm finding. I'm dropping flyers in comic sores in London but it's trying to get a big presence.

As for the Odditie idea I think it's a great call but someone still has to organise and fund the concept and that isn't easy. What happened to the all ages comic book? That topic lasted well over ten pages but has now seemed to die a death. One example of a good idea that didn't go anywhere (and if I'm wrong with that statement I apologise - and what's going on with it, uh?)

I'll do it, just to show the guys how easy it is. There is no funding involved. This is about making money. Not spending it. (First rule of business)
Anyone who has a finished 5 pager that they have no EXCLUSIVE contracted place for is in. Any content. Any genre. The characters and story must be your own. You must have total freedom to allow single printing rights. There will be no signing over of rights or copyright whatsoever. The anthology will not be coming out of print, but that will not stop anyone from allowing the same story to be printed in any other publication, at any time. If I have forgotten anything, let me know.
First five in are it.
I will ask drive thru if an imprint should be created. I don't mind doing it under mine, but I don't want to get caught for other peoples taxes in the unlikely event that it makes millions. If it makes any money over 50 bucks it will be distributed via paypal.
Note me if you are in, and we can fine tune after. Anyone can drop out up to the agreed printing date.
Howzat sound?

[Paul Penna]

The all-ages things kinda died a death with too many people pulling in too many directions.

I tried to steer it for a while but when I began to feel that too many people disagreed with my vision, so I stepped aside.

Things kinda disinteregrated after that.

I'm still working on my 'Kid Prospero' idea, so hopefully something with come of it.

Are you proposing a colour or a black and white anthology? I ask because I'm kinda reluctant to pull my Space Oddities out of the thread before some kind of announcement is made but I do have a three page black and white strip and a five page black and white strip which I'd love to contribute (both originally intended as Space Oddities).

Would it be printed or digital?

If an anthology was to be printed, black and white would cut down on costs.

Edited by Paul Penna, 11 February 2012 - 12:53 AM.

[Stephen Galvin]

The all-ages things kinda died a death with too many people pulling in too many directions.

I tried to steer it for a while but when I began to feel that too many people disagreed with my vision, so I stepped aside.

Things kinda disinteregrated after that.

I'm still working on my 'Kid Prospero' idea, so hopefully something with come of it.

Are you proposing a colour or a black and white anthology? I ask because I'm kinda reluctant to pull my Space Oddities out of the thread before some kind of announcement is made but I do have a three page black and white strip and a five page black and white strip which I'd love to contribute (both originally intended as Space Oddities).

5 page black and white sounds good. As it's digital, there will be no distinctions. I will only set a quality bar in the sense that the story must be complete in itself. I will not be editing for some notion of quality, or steering the content in any direction. The maturity rating will be set by the most mature story. I will not be keeping anyone out to satisfy any other person, so everyone should feel free to do exactly what they want. Drive thru do not censor, and neither do I.
Whatever you want,Paul, is the answer to that one. You have my email. Send me samples if you are in.

[Paul Penna]

What does everyone else think about an 'Oddities' Anthology?

Whether it be digital or in print?

I know that John Paul Fitch was considering trying to put together a print version at some point as well (he made a few posts about it), although I'm not sure what happened to it.

I think this is definetly something that a lot of people want to see, it's a shame it hasn't happened yet.

Edited by Paul Penna, 11 February 2012 - 01:18 AM.